I see nothing overly controversial with your post, sorry :). I agree with your statements and also don't make a big fuzz out of the "paid for blog comments" thing. It is very simple.
If the posted comments are just a new form of spam to circumvent spam filters, you as advertiser paying for those comments will not gain business from this type of advertisement, probably the opposite instead. The comments will also have a low chance of remaining active at the blog and will most likely be deleted like any other spam that might gets passed the filters. You will loose reputation and eventually customers and will have a harder time to find new ones.
The low cost of the service makes me assume that it will be outsourced to some low cost country half way around the world (from you or me :) ). At least did you advertising dollars help to support an evolving economy somewhere else and get the bread on the family table for somebody.
If the comments are good and you gain business as a result of it without a loss in reputation or even gain from it, reputation or authority, great, go for it. There is nothing wrong with that.
You see, the problem solves itself very naturally.
p.s. this comment is a "paid comment", because it is business related and any time I spent for it is working time, (which hopefully gets compensated via one way or another = paid. :)
If we want to make it unpaid, lets talk about text art or Cirque Du Soleil hehe.
Carsten Cumbrowski
· 2 years ago
I see nothing overly controversial with your post, sorry :). I agree with your statements and also don't make a big fuzz out of the "paid for blog comments" thing. It is very simple.
If the posted comments are just a new form of spam to circumvent spam filters, you as advertiser paying for those comments will not gain business from this type of advertisement, probably the opposite instead. The comments will also have a low chance of remaining active at the blog and will most likely be deleted like any other spam that might gets passed the filters. You will loose reputation and eventually customers and will have a harder time to find new ones.
The low cost of the service makes me assume that it will be outsourced to some low cost country half way around the world (from you or me :) ). At least did you advertising dollars help to support an evolving economy somewhere else and get the bread on the family table for somebody.
If the comments are good and you gain business as a result of it without a loss in reputation or even gain from it, reputation or authority, great, go for it. There is nothing wrong with that.
You see, the problem solves itself very naturally.
p.s. this comment is a "paid comment", because it is business related and any time I spent for it is working time, (which hopefully gets compensated via one way or another = paid. :)
If we want to make it unpaid, lets talk about text art or Cirque Du Soleil hehe.
Blog Strokes
· 2 years ago
Hey Andy, I'm not sure why, but I almost expected you to go the other way on this one. Should have known better. Good analysis of the concept as a whole.
Blog Strokes
· 2 years ago
Hey Andy, I'm not sure why, but I almost expected you to go the other way on this one. Should have known better. Good analysis of the concept as a whole.
lucia
· 2 years ago
I also agree with your post. The fact that the person leaving the comment is paid to blog, or post comments does not make what amounts to nothing more than writing or advertising ethical or not.
The problem is that some for pay comment systems leave valueless, uninformative, insincere comments that are nothing more than attempts to jack SEO. The for hire commenters never return, and have no memory for any particular blog.
I generally try to avoid deciding whether or not that behavior is "ethical", but I do know it's not behavior a blog owner want to permit on the part of visitors. Many blog owners consider particular comments are "spam" in the sense that they are numerous and undesirable. (In many ways, spam and weeds are similar. A comment in the wrong place is comment spam; a plant in the wrong place is a weed;)
I know you are aware that my approach is not so much to yammer on and on about the ethics of the for pay human comment spammers. My approach is to write plugins to let the blogger who owns a site reclaim control of the link juice doled out on the blog. Irrespective of the "ethics" of for pay comments, it is the bloggers right (and sometimes obligation) to delete or add nofollow tags to any comment on their site.
lucia
· 2 years ago
I also agree with your post. The fact that the person leaving the comment is paid to blog, or post comments does not make what amounts to nothing more than writing or advertising ethical or not.
The problem is that some for pay comment systems leave valueless, uninformative, insincere comments that are nothing more than attempts to jack SEO. The for hire commenters never return, and have no memory for any particular blog.
I generally try to avoid deciding whether or not that behavior is "ethical", but I do know it's not behavior a blog owner want to permit on the part of visitors. Many blog owners consider particular comments are "spam" in the sense that they are numerous and undesirable. (In many ways, spam and weeds are similar. A comment in the wrong place is comment spam; a plant in the wrong place is a weed;)
I know you are aware that my approach is not so much to yammer on and on about the ethics of the for pay human comment spammers. My approach is to write plugins to let the blogger who owns a site reclaim control of the link juice doled out on the blog. Irrespective of the "ethics" of for pay comments, it is the bloggers right (and sometimes obligation) to delete or add nofollow tags to any comment on their site.
Webomatica
· 2 years ago
Well... you have some points but here's the key for me. Say you have a personal assistant of yours leaving comments on other blogs. If that assistant signs their names as "Andy Beard" and is pretending to be you, that's where I take issue.
If they put in their comment, "Assistant to Andy Beard" etc. I'd feel better about it.
Matt Cutts of Google surely doesn't leave comments as "Sergey Brin" for example.
Blog Strokes
· 2 years ago
But wouldn't you say Matt Cutts could validly and Ethically sign comments Google (within Google's own policies on such an activity)? or if I hired an employee, working to promote my blog, couldn't they as my representative sign posts as Blog Strokes? Or do you see that as the same thing as them signing "Sergey Brin" in the one case and "Dane Morgan" in the other?
Webomatica
· 2 years ago
Well... you have some points but here's the key for me. Say you have a personal assistant of yours leaving comments on other blogs. If that assistant signs their names as "Andy Beard" and is pretending to be you, that's where I take issue.
If they put in their comment, "Assistant to Andy Beard" etc. I'd feel better about it.
Matt Cutts of Google surely doesn't leave comments as "Sergey Brin" for example.
Blog Strokes
· 2 years ago
But wouldn't you say Matt Cutts could validly and Ethically sign comments Google (within Google's own policies on such an activity)? or if I hired an employee, working to promote my blog, couldn't they as my representative sign posts as Blog Strokes? Or do you see that as the same thing as them signing "Sergey Brin" in the one case and "Dane Morgan" in the other?
B
· 2 years ago
Linkbait. Really, really good linkbait, but linkbait nonetheless. If paid posting is ethical, it's possible that paid commenting could be ethical. But I think Darren Rowse's assessment is correct and at that pace there's no way that service, hitting those numbers, would be ethical or even worthwhile. Great article, Andy.
B
· 2 years ago
Linkbait. Really, really good linkbait, but linkbait nonetheless. If paid posting is ethical, it's possible that paid commenting could be ethical. But I think Darren Rowse's assessment is correct and at that pace there's no way that service, hitting those numbers, would be ethical or even worthwhile. Great article, Andy.
Jim Turner
· 2 years ago
First of all thanks for the link love and the phrase "very professional service". We do pride ourselves on total transparency and being nothing more than a contract blogger service representing the voice of the company through blogging. Watching for links to the blog, discussions about the company and all the rest is just a part of being a good blogger. It has nothing to do with separate details of what should be paid or not. As a personal blogger talking about knitting or the price of tea in China, part of what a blogger does is comment and follow conversations to build readership. Joining in the niche and participating is the key to blogging success.
A professional blogger should have no different agenda. Grow the readership and open the conversation. If that means going back and checking if a comment generated another comment, or merely responding to a company mention either good or bad, it's all part of the "blogger job description". We treat our bloggers as representatives of the company. Many companies can't afford a social media manager or community person, so we provide that at a low cost to them. If our blogger cannot make comment due to a company policy or due to a lack of knowledge in an area, we ask the principals of the company to step and make comment and continue the conversation. At the www.mogomobility.com blog for instance we get a number of comments and "contact us" questions we cannot comment upon, but we take that opportunity to seek out an answer or a statement and respond directly and immediately. Yes we charge for blogging services but blogging is more than words on a page. Blogging is participation. Participation includes comments.
Jim "Genuine" Turner
· 2 years ago
First of all thanks for the link love and the phrase "very professional service". We do pride ourselves on total transparency and being nothing more than a contract blogger service representing the voice of the company through blogging. Watching for links to the blog, discussions about the company and all the rest is just a part of being a good blogger. It has nothing to do with separate details of what should be paid or not. As a personal blogger talking about knitting or the price of tea in China, part of what a blogger does is comment and follow conversations to build readership. Joining in the niche and participating is the key to blogging success.
A professional blogger should have no different agenda. Grow the readership and open the conversation. If that means going back and checking if a comment generated another comment, or merely responding to a company mention either good or bad, it's all part of the "blogger job description". We treat our bloggers as representatives of the company. Many companies can't afford a social media manager or community person, so we provide that at a low cost to them. If our blogger cannot make comment due to a company policy or due to a lack of knowledge in an area, we ask the principals of the company to step and make comment and continue the conversation. At the www.mogomobility.com blog for instance we get a number of comments and "contact us" questions we cannot comment upon, but we take that opportunity to seek out an answer or a statement and respond directly and immediately. Yes we charge for blogging services but blogging is more than words on a page. Blogging is participation. Participation includes comments.
Bruce Swedal - Denver Real Est
· 2 years ago
You make a great point on how many posts would need to be made to make any kind of money at it. They would need to outsource it another country or get teenagers that are willing to do it.
Bruce Swedal - Denver Real Est
· 2 years ago
You make a great point on how many posts would need to be made to make any kind of money at it. They would need to outsource it another country or get teenagers that are willing to do it.
Palm Coast
· 2 years ago
I've been following stories on this service since it came out. I stand in a neutral position on this, I think it's a great service for the blogs they leave comments on IF they do it right, and I think it's a so-so service from a customers standpoint because you're letting someone else speak on your behalf. I've also seen people commenting all over the place about how they don't want to be commented and they'll be watching and this and that, and I think that's just an ego problem on their part.
Palm Coast
· 2 years ago
I've been following stories on this service since it came out. I stand in a neutral position on this, I think it's a great service for the blogs they leave comments on IF they do it right, and I think it's a so-so service from a customers standpoint because you're letting someone else speak on your behalf. I've also seen people commenting all over the place about how they don't want to be commented and they'll be watching and this and that, and I think that's just an ego problem on their part.
Biswaroop Todi
· 2 years ago
[edit]
I wasn't going to comment on this article because I am sick of hearing about it. But Some article submissions and PR web sites allow people to subscribe to specific categories related to their web site as RSS feeds. If a website subscribes to the RSS feed for the category that you have submitted your article to, your article and back link will not only show up on the website that you have submitted to, it will also automatically appear on all of the websites that subscribe to the RSS feed of that category.
[message from the zealous comment moderator, who may or may not be Andy] As far as I am concerned this was manual spam - sure article submission was mentioned, but only in passing, and the commenter just happens to do manual article submission
Biswaroop Todi
· 2 years ago
[edit]
I wasn't going to comment on this article because I am sick of hearing about it. But Some article submissions and PR web sites allow people to subscribe to specific categories related to their web site as RSS feeds. If a website subscribes to the RSS feed for the category that you have submitted your article to, your article and back link will not only show up on the website that you have submitted to, it will also automatically appear on all of the websites that subscribe to the RSS feed of that category.
[message from the zealous comment moderator, who may or may not be Andy] As far as I am concerned this was manual spam - sure article submission was mentioned, but only in passing, and the commenter just happens to do manual article submission
Chris
· 2 years ago
Damn Andy, and I was just going to pay you to review my dating e-book.... ;-)
You are quite right of course that they can be ethical, but the example quoted by Darren is unlikely ever to be. I also agree with the earlier comment that the commenter shouldn't pretend to be someone else.
As with anything, web-based or otherwise, you get what you pay for and $200 for a 1000 comments could be much better spent.
If paid posts should be disclosed (as they should be), should paid comments?
Chris
· 2 years ago
Damn Andy, and I was just going to pay you to review my dating e-book.... ;-)
You are quite right of course that they can be ethical, but the example quoted by Darren is unlikely ever to be. I also agree with the earlier comment that the commenter shouldn't pretend to be someone else.
As with anything, web-based or otherwise, you get what you pay for and $200 for a 1000 comments could be much better spent.
If paid posts should be disclosed (as they should be), should paid comments?
Lyndon Antcliff
· 2 years ago
Dammit, I wish I had more time to write what I think, but I have pesky clients hammering at my door like a demented mob, screaming that I write linkbait for them.
Whenever ethics and internet marketing are mentioned in the same sentance without mentioning Aristotle or our Judeo/Christian code which forms the basis of our moral code, my "what's the angle here" radar blips on.
We still have one foot in the jungle, in a heartbeat we can turn into rabid savages and rip out the throat of our enemies with a pair of small nail clippers to defend yourself and your clan.
So when it comes to leaving a few words when invited on another bloggers blog and getting paid for it so you can pay the rent and eat, and it works. Then fine, the natural order of "things" will sort it out.
I'm a big believer in karma, and no, karma was not invented by a US TV executive so more detergent can be sold. You pay for short cuts, and in the end I think you will get short cutted yourself.
Do bad people die rich and happy? Yes.
Is being paid to leave comments on a blog bad, or unethical? I have no idea.
I do know that when I took the link condom off, I got a little more action. OK let me say that in another less double en tondre way. I get more comments now, and some of them I know are simply for the link juice. But here's the thing. I have enough to go around, so come get some.
Damn you Andy Beard for suckering me into writing this comment. Now I really must get back to work before the rabid mob really do batter down my door and steal my stash of Chile Doritos.
Maybe more on this later.
Lyndon Antcliff
· 2 years ago
Dammit, I wish I had more time to write what I think, but I have pesky clients hammering at my door like a demented mob, screaming that I write linkbait for them.
Whenever ethics and internet marketing are mentioned in the same sentance without mentioning Aristotle or our Judeo/Christian code which forms the basis of our moral code, my "what's the angle here" radar blips on.
We still have one foot in the jungle, in a heartbeat we can turn into rabid savages and rip out the throat of our enemies with a pair of small nail clippers to defend yourself and your clan.
So when it comes to leaving a few words when invited on another bloggers blog and getting paid for it so you can pay the rent and eat, and it works. Then fine, the natural order of "things" will sort it out.
I'm a big believer in karma, and no, karma was not invented by a US TV executive so more detergent can be sold. You pay for short cuts, and in the end I think you will get short cutted yourself.
Do bad people die rich and happy? Yes.
Is being paid to leave comments on a blog bad, or unethical? I have no idea.
I do know that when I took the link condom off, I got a little more action. OK let me say that in another less double en tondre way. I get more comments now, and some of them I know are simply for the link juice. But here's the thing. I have enough to go around, so come get some.
Damn you Andy Beard for suckering me into writing this comment. Now I really must get back to work before the rabid mob really do batter down my door and steal my stash of Chile Doritos.
Maybe more on this later.
AndyBeard
· 2 years ago
I can actually think of situations and blogs where someone spending 20 seconds thinking and writing about their comment would actually be ethical, and might even increase the quality of the normal comments on the site...
Commenting on blogs like Perez Hilton and dare I say it... John Chow ;)
AndyBeard
· 2 years ago
I can actually think of situations and blogs where someone spending 20 seconds thinking and writing about their comment would actually be ethical, and might even increase the quality of the normal comments on the site...
Commenting on blogs like Perez Hilton and dare I say it... John Chow ;)
Chris
· 2 years ago
Saucer of milk for the blogger in Poland! ;-)
Chris
· 2 years ago
Saucer of milk for the blogger in Poland! ;-)
Vlad
· 2 years ago
I did have few negative things to say about this new business. I still believe that their business model is unsustainable.... However if I were behind the website, I would be happy with such great feedback. If they read all the feedback and adjust accordingly, they may actually do real well. But as Darren said with 19 cents per comment it does not look so good.
Vlad
· 2 years ago
I did have few negative things to say about this new business. I still believe that their business model is unsustainable.... However if I were behind the website, I would be happy with such great feedback. If they read all the feedback and adjust accordingly, they may actually do real well. But as Darren said with 19 cents per comment it does not look so good.
Buddha Statues
· 2 years ago
Good analysis of the concept as a whole.
[edit]Spammy "Buddha Statues" link deleted
Buddha Statues
· 2 years ago
Good analysis of the concept as a whole.
[edit]Spammy "Buddha Statues" link deleted
Jim "Genuine" Turner
· 2 years ago
OMG I think this post just got a drive by comment! LOL Just what I was hoping to find here a Buddha Statue!
Jim Turner
· 2 years ago
OMG I think this post just got a drive by comment! LOL Just what I was hoping to find here a Buddha Statue!
Michelle MacPhearson
· 2 years ago
Hey Andy,
I wrote a long response with similar thoughts on ProBlogger's comments, but had a glitch when I hit "Send" and lost it.
I'm very, very glad to see your post.
I have employees that do comment for me. They also give me the URL's of where they commented so I can check them and make sure the comments are of value. They actually do a very good job, and sometimes have insights I wouldn't have thought of.
They are also non-US based, and are paid wages lower then US-based workers would receive. They are happy because they are still receiving higher wages then they would at the jobs available to them in their home country (if they could find a job at home) and because they enjoy working at home.
I provide training, and am available on Messenger much of the time to answer any questions they might have.
They never post as me, because my niche work is not done in my own name.
I do have employees that occasionally do something in my name (i.e. send out an email about a software update). I don't see that as unethical, and if they were posting blog comments in my name, I wouldn't see that as unethical.
As a teen I worked for a CPA as a secretary and would often write letters on his behalf, signing his name, etc. Not unethical - simply what happens when one's business grows.
Anyway, I could go on and on. I appreciate your voice of reason in this debate.
And a shout-out to the blogosphere: EARNING OR PAYING MONEY DOES NOT MAKE SOMETHING UNETHICAL BY DEFAULT.
-Michelle
Michelle MacPhearson
· 2 years ago
Hey Andy,
I wrote a long response with similar thoughts on ProBlogger's comments, but had a glitch when I hit "Send" and lost it.
I'm very, very glad to see your post.
I have employees that do comment for me. They also give me the URL's of where they commented so I can check them and make sure the comments are of value. They actually do a very good job, and sometimes have insights I wouldn't have thought of.
They are also non-US based, and are paid wages lower then US-based workers would receive. They are happy because they are still receiving higher wages then they would at the jobs available to them in their home country (if they could find a job at home) and because they enjoy working at home.
I provide training, and am available on Messenger much of the time to answer any questions they might have.
They never post as me, because my niche work is not done in my own name.
I do have employees that occasionally do something in my name (i.e. send out an email about a software update). I don't see that as unethical, and if they were posting blog comments in my name, I wouldn't see that as unethical.
As a teen I worked for a CPA as a secretary and would often write letters on his behalf, signing his name, etc. Not unethical - simply what happens when one's business grows.
Anyway, I could go on and on. I appreciate your voice of reason in this debate.
And a shout-out to the blogosphere: EARNING OR PAYING MONEY DOES NOT MAKE SOMETHING UNETHICAL BY DEFAULT.
-Michelle
Damon
· 2 years ago
I agree with this post. It would be hard to tell if someone actually wrote a comment themselves, or paid someone else to do it.
Some argue that if you pay someone to post a comment, it doesn't help that blogger because it's a one and done deal and that persons not coming back. I myself have posted a comment on anothers site because I thought the post was interesting, but the rest of the site either didn't pertain to my interests or the content wasn't that good.
This issue comes down to quality. If you pay someone to comment on blogs, it should be highly relevent and not "spammy"
Damon
· 2 years ago
I agree with this post. It would be hard to tell if someone actually wrote a comment themselves, or paid someone else to do it.
Some argue that if you pay someone to post a comment, it doesn't help that blogger because it's a one and done deal and that persons not coming back. I myself have posted a comment on anothers site because I thought the post was interesting, but the rest of the site either didn't pertain to my interests or the content wasn't that good.
This issue comes down to quality. If you pay someone to comment on blogs, it should be highly relevent and not "spammy"
lucia
· 2 years ago
Damon, I value one time commenters, but don't give them "dofollows". I give dofollows only after 3 comments. My reason is purely practical: I can check comments to some extent, but I am bound to let a few slip through.
I prefer to not give a "dofollow" to a few worthy comments rather than attract a swarm of comments for "cashmere dog sweaters", dating sites, or SEO services. (My knitting site does seem to attract 4-5 of these daily.) Should I ever fail in my vigilant effort to delete those links, I want dofollow plugin to not give them dofollows.
lucia
· 2 years ago
Damon, I value one time commenters, but don't give them "dofollows". I give dofollows only after 3 comments. My reason is purely practical: I can check comments to some extent, but I am bound to let a few slip through.
I prefer to not give a "dofollow" to a few worthy comments rather than attract a swarm of comments for "cashmere dog sweaters", dating sites, or SEO services. (My knitting site does seem to attract 4-5 of these daily.) Should I ever fail in my vigilant effort to delete those links, I want dofollow plugin to not give them dofollows.
Blog Strokes
· 2 years ago
Are you not using any spam plugins, Lucia? I have blogs that get hundreds of "spam comments" every day, and I almost never have to moderate a comment. When I do, it's Spam Karma that let me know there was a problem in the first place.
Blog Strokes
· 2 years ago
Are you not using any spam plugins, Lucia? I have blogs that get hundreds of "spam comments" every day, and I almost never have to moderate a comment. When I do, it's Spam Karma that let me know there was a problem in the first place.
Jen / domestika
· 2 years ago
I came in sceptical, but now I'm not so sure that you don't have a point. "If the intent of a comment is clearly to join in the conversation and not just for SEO, that is an ethical comment" is hard to argue with! Maybe it's just human nature to be fundamentally uncomfortable with fuzzy lines and slippery slopes... and at base, I guess, it all comes down to the "quality" of the comment rather than whether or not the person commenting is doing so out of spontaneous enthusiasm or because they've been paid to do so.
Jen / domestika
· 2 years ago
I came in sceptical, but now I'm not so sure that you don't have a point. "If the intent of a comment is clearly to join in the conversation and not just for SEO, that is an ethical comment" is hard to argue with! Maybe it's just human nature to be fundamentally uncomfortable with fuzzy lines and slippery slopes... and at base, I guess, it all comes down to the "quality" of the comment rather than whether or not the person commenting is doing so out of spontaneous enthusiasm or because they've been paid to do so.
Elixir
· 2 years ago
i've also wondered how its possible to get US/Canadian posters on such low margins... but theres nothing wrong with having paid comments. a shame bloggers need to resort to these tactics for seo, but unethical? surely not!
Elixir
· 2 years ago
i've also wondered how its possible to get US/Canadian posters on such low margins... but theres nothing wrong with having paid comments. a shame bloggers need to resort to these tactics for seo, but unethical? surely not!
Dan and Jennifer
· 2 years ago
Hey Andy,
Thanks for the shout out and for the kind words. We appreciate it. :-)
We had started out doing advice articles, but the change to video for our Dating, Relationship, and Sex advice column is probably the best move we've made to date. It's been golden as far as opportunities that have come our way.
Case in point, we just got back from L.A. from our first national Television appearance - directly resulting from our online videos, and we were just contacted by another TV producer for a major daytime show.
Also we had our first talk radio appearance last week on a very popular show syndicated across Canada, and just did an interview with a major California paper for a Sunday feature story that ended up being syndicated across dozens of other papers across the country.
That, plus we love what we do! Great stuff and great fun... :-)
Have an awesome day! Dan & Jennifer
Dan and Jennifer
· 2 years ago
Hey Andy,
Thanks for the shout out and for the kind words. We appreciate it. :-)
We had started out doing advice articles, but the change to video for our Dating, Relationship, and Sex advice column is probably the best move we've made to date. It's been golden as far as opportunities that have come our way.
Case in point, we just got back from L.A. from our first national Television appearance - directly resulting from our online videos, and we were just contacted by another TV producer for a major daytime show.
Also we had our first talk radio appearance last week on a very popular show syndicated across Canada, and just did an interview with a major California paper for a Sunday feature story that ended up being syndicated across dozens of other papers across the country.
That, plus we love what we do! Great stuff and great fun... :-)
Have an awesome day! Dan & Jennifer
Alex (intellimind)
· 2 years ago
hey andy, very nice post. I like how you compare paid comments to what you pay people to do for you already. After this, i really do belive its ethical
hey andy, very nice post. I like how you compare paid comments to what you pay people to do for you already. After this, i really do belive its ethical
I agree with this post, oddly enough I was having this discussion with my father-in-law and I was saying there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is:
1. helpful to the visitors 2. related to the topic 3. not abused
He seems to disagree, he is a stubborn ol mule who still does things the hard way :)
I haven't yet used this method but know some people that has had great result from using it and getting high rankings for competitive words..
Dennis
· 2 years ago
Hi Andy,
I agree with this post, oddly enough I was having this discussion with my father-in-law and I was saying there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is:
1. helpful to the visitors 2. related to the topic 3. not abused
He seems to disagree, he is a stubborn ol mule who still does things the hard way :)
I haven't yet used this method but know some people that has had great result from using it and getting high rankings for competitive words..
Matt
· 2 years ago
This seems to be a similar moral dilemma to writing sponsored posts on your own blog. I would say that sponosred posts are not unethical, as long as there is disclosure.
Dfference with comments is that there is no disclosure. No room for it, apart from anything else!
Matt
· 2 years ago
This seems to be a similar moral dilemma to writing sponsored posts on your own blog. I would say that sponosred posts are not unethical, as long as there is disclosure.
Dfference with comments is that there is no disclosure. No room for it, apart from anything else!
Dawn
· 1 year ago
Hey Andy- Thinking about Darren's statements about how many comments per minute have to be made in order to make a decent living- he probably started a landslide over at DP. :)
I get offers all the time from people on DP willing to do dirty, tedious, monotonous work for next to nothing. I can't lie...I have hired some myself but I do give generous tips if they do a good job for me because if they do quality work, I want them to be available for me. :)
I agree that comment posting on blogs can be done ethically- but I reserve important jobs for myself or for pros I have worked with in the past that I trust. There is nothing more unprofessional than comments that are not pertinent to the conversations. It completely shows your company in a bad light. (Like the Wide Circle comments you mentioned on another page of your blog).
My two cents worth.
Dawn
· 1 year ago
Hey Andy- Thinking about Darren's statements about how many comments per minute have to be made in order to make a decent living- he probably started a landslide over at DP. :)
I get offers all the time from people on DP willing to do dirty, tedious, monotonous work for next to nothing. I can't lie...I have hired some myself but I do give generous tips if they do a good job for me because if they do quality work, I want them to be available for me. :)
I agree that comment posting on blogs can be done ethically- but I reserve important jobs for myself or for pros I have worked with in the past that I trust. There is nothing more unprofessional than comments that are not pertinent to the conversations. It completely shows your company in a bad light. (Like the Wide Circle comments you mentioned on another page of your blog).
All Comments
If the posted comments are just a new form of spam to circumvent spam filters, you as advertiser paying for those comments will not gain business from this type of advertisement, probably the opposite instead. The comments will also have a low chance of remaining active at the blog and will most likely be deleted like any other spam that might gets passed the filters. You will loose reputation and eventually customers and will have a harder time to find new ones.
The low cost of the service makes me assume that it will be outsourced to some low cost country half way around the world (from you or me :) ). At least did you advertising dollars help to support an evolving economy somewhere else and get the bread on the family table for somebody.
If the comments are good and you gain business as a result of it without a loss in reputation or even gain from it, reputation or authority, great, go for it. There is nothing wrong with that.
You see, the problem solves itself very naturally.
p.s. this comment is a "paid comment", because it is business related and any time I spent for it is working time, (which hopefully gets compensated via one way or another = paid. :)
If we want to make it unpaid, lets talk about text art or Cirque Du Soleil hehe.
If the posted comments are just a new form of spam to circumvent spam filters, you as advertiser paying for those comments will not gain business from this type of advertisement, probably the opposite instead. The comments will also have a low chance of remaining active at the blog and will most likely be deleted like any other spam that might gets passed the filters. You will loose reputation and eventually customers and will have a harder time to find new ones.
The low cost of the service makes me assume that it will be outsourced to some low cost country half way around the world (from you or me :) ). At least did you advertising dollars help to support an evolving economy somewhere else and get the bread on the family table for somebody.
If the comments are good and you gain business as a result of it without a loss in reputation or even gain from it, reputation or authority, great, go for it. There is nothing wrong with that.
You see, the problem solves itself very naturally.
p.s. this comment is a "paid comment", because it is business related and any time I spent for it is working time, (which hopefully gets compensated via one way or another = paid. :)
If we want to make it unpaid, lets talk about text art or Cirque Du Soleil hehe.
The problem is that some for pay comment systems leave valueless, uninformative, insincere comments that are nothing more than attempts to jack SEO. The for hire commenters never return, and have no memory for any particular blog.
I generally try to avoid deciding whether or not that behavior is "ethical", but I do know it's not behavior a blog owner want to permit on the part of visitors. Many blog owners consider particular comments are "spam" in the sense that they are numerous and undesirable. (In many ways, spam and weeds are similar. A comment in the wrong place is comment spam; a plant in the wrong place is a weed;)
I know you are aware that my approach is not so much to yammer on and on about the ethics of the for pay human comment spammers. My approach is to write plugins to let the blogger who owns a site reclaim control of the link juice doled out on the blog. Irrespective of the "ethics" of for pay comments, it is the bloggers right (and sometimes obligation) to delete or add nofollow tags to any comment on their site.
The problem is that some for pay comment systems leave valueless, uninformative, insincere comments that are nothing more than attempts to jack SEO. The for hire commenters never return, and have no memory for any particular blog.
I generally try to avoid deciding whether or not that behavior is "ethical", but I do know it's not behavior a blog owner want to permit on the part of visitors. Many blog owners consider particular comments are "spam" in the sense that they are numerous and undesirable. (In many ways, spam and weeds are similar. A comment in the wrong place is comment spam; a plant in the wrong place is a weed;)
I know you are aware that my approach is not so much to yammer on and on about the ethics of the for pay human comment spammers. My approach is to write plugins to let the blogger who owns a site reclaim control of the link juice doled out on the blog. Irrespective of the "ethics" of for pay comments, it is the bloggers right (and sometimes obligation) to delete or add nofollow tags to any comment on their site.
If they put in their comment, "Assistant to Andy Beard" etc. I'd feel better about it.
Matt Cutts of Google surely doesn't leave comments as "Sergey Brin" for example.
If they put in their comment, "Assistant to Andy Beard" etc. I'd feel better about it.
Matt Cutts of Google surely doesn't leave comments as "Sergey Brin" for example.
A professional blogger should have no different agenda. Grow the readership and open the conversation. If that means going back and checking if a comment generated another comment, or merely responding to a company mention either good or bad, it's all part of the "blogger job description". We treat our bloggers as representatives of the company. Many companies can't afford a social media manager or community person, so we provide that at a low cost to them. If our blogger cannot make comment due to a company policy or due to a lack of knowledge in an area, we ask the principals of the company to step and make comment and continue the conversation. At the www.mogomobility.com blog for instance we get a number of comments and "contact us" questions we cannot comment upon, but we take that opportunity to seek out an answer or a statement and respond directly and immediately. Yes we charge for blogging services but blogging is more than words on a page. Blogging is participation. Participation includes comments.
A professional blogger should have no different agenda. Grow the readership and open the conversation. If that means going back and checking if a comment generated another comment, or merely responding to a company mention either good or bad, it's all part of the "blogger job description". We treat our bloggers as representatives of the company. Many companies can't afford a social media manager or community person, so we provide that at a low cost to them. If our blogger cannot make comment due to a company policy or due to a lack of knowledge in an area, we ask the principals of the company to step and make comment and continue the conversation. At the www.mogomobility.com blog for instance we get a number of comments and "contact us" questions we cannot comment upon, but we take that opportunity to seek out an answer or a statement and respond directly and immediately. Yes we charge for blogging services but blogging is more than words on a page. Blogging is participation. Participation includes comments.
I wasn't going to comment on this article because I am sick of hearing about it. But Some article submissions and PR web sites allow people to subscribe to specific categories related to their web site as RSS feeds. If a website subscribes to the RSS feed for the category that you have submitted your article to, your article and back link will not only show up on the website that you have submitted to, it will also automatically appear on all of the websites that subscribe to the RSS feed of that category.
[message from the zealous comment moderator, who may or may not be Andy]
As far as I am concerned this was manual spam - sure article submission was mentioned, but only in passing, and the commenter just happens to do manual article submission
I wasn't going to comment on this article because I am sick of hearing about it. But Some article submissions and PR web sites allow people to subscribe to specific categories related to their web site as RSS feeds. If a website subscribes to the RSS feed for the category that you have submitted your article to, your article and back link will not only show up on the website that you have submitted to, it will also automatically appear on all of the websites that subscribe to the RSS feed of that category.
[message from the zealous comment moderator, who may or may not be Andy]
As far as I am concerned this was manual spam - sure article submission was mentioned, but only in passing, and the commenter just happens to do manual article submission
You are quite right of course that they can be ethical, but the example quoted by Darren is unlikely ever to be. I also agree with the earlier comment that the commenter shouldn't pretend to be someone else.
As with anything, web-based or otherwise, you get what you pay for and $200 for a 1000 comments could be much better spent.
If paid posts should be disclosed (as they should be), should paid comments?
You are quite right of course that they can be ethical, but the example quoted by Darren is unlikely ever to be. I also agree with the earlier comment that the commenter shouldn't pretend to be someone else.
As with anything, web-based or otherwise, you get what you pay for and $200 for a 1000 comments could be much better spent.
If paid posts should be disclosed (as they should be), should paid comments?
Whenever ethics and internet marketing are mentioned in the same sentance without mentioning Aristotle or our Judeo/Christian code which forms the basis of our moral code, my "what's the angle here" radar blips on.
We still have one foot in the jungle, in a heartbeat we can turn into rabid savages and rip out the throat of our enemies with a pair of small nail clippers to defend yourself and your clan.
So when it comes to leaving a few words when invited on another bloggers blog and getting paid for it so you can pay the rent and eat, and it works. Then fine, the natural order of "things" will sort it out.
I'm a big believer in karma, and no, karma was not invented by a US TV executive so more detergent can be sold. You pay for short cuts, and in the end I think you will get short cutted yourself.
Do bad people die rich and happy? Yes.
Is being paid to leave comments on a blog bad, or unethical? I have no idea.
I do know that when I took the link condom off, I got a little more action. OK let me say that in another less double en tondre way. I get more comments now, and some of them I know are simply for the link juice. But here's the thing. I have enough to go around, so come get some.
Damn you Andy Beard for suckering me into writing this comment. Now I really must get back to work before the rabid mob really do batter down my door and steal my stash of Chile Doritos.
Maybe more on this later.
Whenever ethics and internet marketing are mentioned in the same sentance without mentioning Aristotle or our Judeo/Christian code which forms the basis of our moral code, my "what's the angle here" radar blips on.
We still have one foot in the jungle, in a heartbeat we can turn into rabid savages and rip out the throat of our enemies with a pair of small nail clippers to defend yourself and your clan.
So when it comes to leaving a few words when invited on another bloggers blog and getting paid for it so you can pay the rent and eat, and it works. Then fine, the natural order of "things" will sort it out.
I'm a big believer in karma, and no, karma was not invented by a US TV executive so more detergent can be sold. You pay for short cuts, and in the end I think you will get short cutted yourself.
Do bad people die rich and happy? Yes.
Is being paid to leave comments on a blog bad, or unethical? I have no idea.
I do know that when I took the link condom off, I got a little more action. OK let me say that in another less double en tondre way. I get more comments now, and some of them I know are simply for the link juice. But here's the thing. I have enough to go around, so come get some.
Damn you Andy Beard for suckering me into writing this comment. Now I really must get back to work before the rabid mob really do batter down my door and steal my stash of Chile Doritos.
Maybe more on this later.
Commenting on blogs like Perez Hilton and dare I say it... John Chow ;)
Commenting on blogs like Perez Hilton and dare I say it... John Chow ;)
[edit]Spammy "Buddha Statues" link deleted
[edit]Spammy "Buddha Statues" link deleted
I wrote a long response with similar thoughts on ProBlogger's comments, but had a glitch when I hit "Send" and lost it.
I'm very, very glad to see your post.
I have employees that do comment for me. They also give me the URL's of where they commented so I can check them and make sure the comments are of value. They actually do a very good job, and sometimes have insights I wouldn't have thought of.
They are also non-US based, and are paid wages lower then US-based workers would receive. They are happy because they are still receiving higher wages then they would at the jobs available to them in their home country (if they could find a job at home) and because they enjoy working at home.
I provide training, and am available on Messenger much of the time to answer any questions they might have.
They never post as me, because my niche work is not done in my own name.
I do have employees that occasionally do something in my name (i.e. send out an email about a software update). I don't see that as unethical, and if they were posting blog comments in my name, I wouldn't see that as unethical.
As a teen I worked for a CPA as a secretary and would often write letters on his behalf, signing his name, etc. Not unethical - simply what happens when one's business grows.
Anyway, I could go on and on. I appreciate your voice of reason in this debate.
And a shout-out to the blogosphere: EARNING OR PAYING MONEY DOES NOT MAKE SOMETHING UNETHICAL BY DEFAULT.
-Michelle
I wrote a long response with similar thoughts on ProBlogger's comments, but had a glitch when I hit "Send" and lost it.
I'm very, very glad to see your post.
I have employees that do comment for me. They also give me the URL's of where they commented so I can check them and make sure the comments are of value. They actually do a very good job, and sometimes have insights I wouldn't have thought of.
They are also non-US based, and are paid wages lower then US-based workers would receive. They are happy because they are still receiving higher wages then they would at the jobs available to them in their home country (if they could find a job at home) and because they enjoy working at home.
I provide training, and am available on Messenger much of the time to answer any questions they might have.
They never post as me, because my niche work is not done in my own name.
I do have employees that occasionally do something in my name (i.e. send out an email about a software update). I don't see that as unethical, and if they were posting blog comments in my name, I wouldn't see that as unethical.
As a teen I worked for a CPA as a secretary and would often write letters on his behalf, signing his name, etc. Not unethical - simply what happens when one's business grows.
Anyway, I could go on and on. I appreciate your voice of reason in this debate.
And a shout-out to the blogosphere: EARNING OR PAYING MONEY DOES NOT MAKE SOMETHING UNETHICAL BY DEFAULT.
-Michelle
Some argue that if you pay someone to post a comment, it doesn't help that blogger because it's a one and done deal and that persons not coming back. I myself have posted a comment on anothers site because I thought the post was interesting, but the rest of the site either didn't pertain to my interests or the content wasn't that good.
This issue comes down to quality. If you pay someone to comment on blogs, it should be highly relevent and not "spammy"
Some argue that if you pay someone to post a comment, it doesn't help that blogger because it's a one and done deal and that persons not coming back. I myself have posted a comment on anothers site because I thought the post was interesting, but the rest of the site either didn't pertain to my interests or the content wasn't that good.
This issue comes down to quality. If you pay someone to comment on blogs, it should be highly relevent and not "spammy"
I value one time commenters, but don't give them "dofollows". I give dofollows only after 3 comments. My reason is purely practical: I can check comments to some extent, but I am bound to let a few slip through.
I prefer to not give a "dofollow" to a few worthy comments rather than attract a swarm of comments for "cashmere dog sweaters", dating sites, or SEO services. (My knitting site does seem to attract 4-5 of these daily.) Should I ever fail in my vigilant effort to delete those links, I want dofollow plugin to not give them dofollows.
I value one time commenters, but don't give them "dofollows". I give dofollows only after 3 comments. My reason is purely practical: I can check comments to some extent, but I am bound to let a few slip through.
I prefer to not give a "dofollow" to a few worthy comments rather than attract a swarm of comments for "cashmere dog sweaters", dating sites, or SEO services. (My knitting site does seem to attract 4-5 of these daily.) Should I ever fail in my vigilant effort to delete those links, I want dofollow plugin to not give them dofollows.
Thanks for the shout out and for the kind words. We appreciate it. :-)
We had started out doing advice articles, but the change to video for our Dating, Relationship, and Sex advice column is probably the best move we've made to date. It's been golden as far as opportunities that have come our way.
Case in point, we just got back from L.A. from our first national Television appearance - directly resulting from our online videos, and we were just contacted by another TV producer for a major daytime show.
Also we had our first talk radio appearance last week on a very popular show syndicated across Canada, and just did an interview with a major California paper for a Sunday feature story that ended up being syndicated across dozens of other papers across the country.
That, plus we love what we do! Great stuff and great fun... :-)
Have an awesome day!
Dan & Jennifer
Thanks for the shout out and for the kind words. We appreciate it. :-)
We had started out doing advice articles, but the change to video for our Dating, Relationship, and Sex advice column is probably the best move we've made to date. It's been golden as far as opportunities that have come our way.
Case in point, we just got back from L.A. from our first national Television appearance - directly resulting from our online videos, and we were just contacted by another TV producer for a major daytime show.
Also we had our first talk radio appearance last week on a very popular show syndicated across Canada, and just did an interview with a major California paper for a Sunday feature story that ended up being syndicated across dozens of other papers across the country.
That, plus we love what we do! Great stuff and great fun... :-)
Have an awesome day!
Dan & Jennifer
- alex, ()
- alex, ()
I agree with this post, oddly enough I was having this discussion with my father-in-law and I was saying there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is:
1. helpful to the visitors
2. related to the topic
3. not abused
He seems to disagree, he is a stubborn ol mule who still does things the hard way :)
I haven't yet used this method but know some people that has had great result from using it and getting high rankings for competitive words..
I agree with this post, oddly enough I was having this discussion with my father-in-law and I was saying there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is:
1. helpful to the visitors
2. related to the topic
3. not abused
He seems to disagree, he is a stubborn ol mule who still does things the hard way :)
I haven't yet used this method but know some people that has had great result from using it and getting high rankings for competitive words..
Dfference with comments is that there is no disclosure. No room for it, apart from anything else!
Dfference with comments is that there is no disclosure. No room for it, apart from anything else!
I get offers all the time from people on DP willing to do dirty, tedious, monotonous work for next to nothing. I can't lie...I have hired some myself but I do give generous tips if they do a good job for me because if they do quality work, I want them to be available for me. :)
I agree that comment posting on blogs can be done ethically- but I reserve important jobs for myself or for pros I have worked with in the past that I trust. There is nothing more unprofessional than comments that are not pertinent to the conversations. It completely shows your company in a bad light. (Like the Wide Circle comments you mentioned on another page of your blog).
My two cents worth.
I get offers all the time from people on DP willing to do dirty, tedious, monotonous work for next to nothing. I can't lie...I have hired some myself but I do give generous tips if they do a good job for me because if they do quality work, I want them to be available for me. :)
I agree that comment posting on blogs can be done ethically- but I reserve important jobs for myself or for pros I have worked with in the past that I trust. There is nothing more unprofessional than comments that are not pertinent to the conversations. It completely shows your company in a bad light. (Like the Wide Circle comments you mentioned on another page of your blog).
My two cents worth.