Andy Beard - Internet Business Systems Discussion - Latest Comments in Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Lowell Crabb — Sat, 05 May 2007 19:16:38 -0000

I completely agree with the whole passion thing. You have to have passion for what you are doing or blogging about. Doing so will produce better results than just setting goals. If you haven't read the book "Good to Great" you have to pick it up.

I also appreciate your commenting policy. Take care.

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Lowell Crabb — Sat, 05 May 2007 19:16:38 -0000

I also appreciate your commenting policy. Take care.

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Cade — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:37:36 -0000

I agree with you about being a link whore. It is one of the most addictive things for a blogger like a drug. I always have to get my fix.

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Cade — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:37:36 -0000

I agree with you about being a link whore. It is one of the most addictive things for a blogger like a drug. I always have to get my fix.

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

AndyBeard — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:19:43 -0000

I delayed a little bit in responding due to the One Day of Blog Silence. I suppose that now for half the World population it is now May, so I am allowing myself to respond to a few comments.

Elaine if you read my post on 2KBloggers you will see that I was actually quite supportive.

There are various aspects to the Technorati Favorites that certainly A-listers aren't addressing.

I am sure you get more use out of Technorati favorites with 2000 favorites, than Darren Rowse with just 22, half of them being his own blogs or those of close friends in B5.

There is a slight pyramid nature to all memes. Certainly those on the 2KBloggers lists early on gained the most traffic from it, and possibly most links, because their faces were on the list first.

The originator of a meme almost always benefits from it far more than anyone else participating. You could look upon that critically, or it could be looked upon as just smart marketing to create an idea that goes viral.

Maki's implementation of Technorati Favorites was initially just a 2 way exchange.
Gary King turned it into a meme train, which is certainly more pyramid like, but those further down the chain do have the opportunity to backtrack a little, so they have equal opportunity, but it involves a lot more work.
My method specifically required a lot less effort, for maybe a lesser effect, although my OPML file is currently a lot smaller than some OPML files people have used, I need to do an update, but want to avoid "pollution" with too many A-listers. It also doesn't directly affect linking, though people have added me to various lists, of their own choice.

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

AndyBeard — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:19:43 -0000

I delayed a little bit in responding due to the One Day of Blog Silence. I suppose that now for half the World population it is now May, so I am allowing myself to respond to a few comments.

Elaine if you read my post on 2KBloggers you will see that I was actually quite supportive.

There are various aspects to the Technorati Favorites that certainly A-listers aren't addressing.

I am sure you get more use out of Technorati favorites with 2000 favorites, than Darren Rowse with just 22, half of them being his own blogs or those of close friends in B5.

There is a slight pyramid nature to all memes. Certainly those on the 2KBloggers lists early on gained the most traffic from it, and possibly most links, because their faces were on the list first.

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Elaine Vigneault — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:45:39 -0000

"The Technorati meme is more Z-list than 2000 bloggers, and certainly any links I have created to people taking part have been deliberately one directional without a requirement to link back to me, and every single link was highly relevant."

Your article is good, but I take exception to this quote above. The 2000 Bloggers Project has taken on a life of its own at http://www.2kbloggers.com and part of that life is that there is no link exchange requirement. There never was.
Moreover, the project is more diverse and democratic than the Z list or the Technorati Favorite Link Train in that the 2k Bloggers doesn't work like a pyramid scheme.

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Elaine Vigneault — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:45:39 -0000

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

mattsofi — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:02:12 -0000

I guess it is more an evolution of Web 2.0. Users and bloggers are thinking of interaction. And this is part of it.

For example, you could leverage more on MyBlogLog communities and contacts but the lack of API would hinder the growth. As it is, the function are limited and pretty basic.

Thanks Andy for being the first few who have fave me. You are the man..

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

mattsofi — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:02:12 -0000

I guess it is more an evolution of Web 2.0. Users and bloggers are thinking of interaction. And this is part of it.

For example, you could leverage more on MyBlogLog communities and contacts but the lack of API would hinder the growth. As it is, the function are limited and pretty basic.

Thanks Andy for being the first few who have fave me. You are the man..

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Paul OFlaherty — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:32:42 -0000

I do get where you're coming from Andy. 100%! I'm just trying to look at other points. Being a bit of a picky git (or devils advocate) if you will!

I could disagree that the:

The Top 100 Favorites in Technorati is purely a gauge of who has promoted it most, not popularity.

Yes, those on the list DID do promotoion to get their readers to add them as favorites, but their readers still added them willingly. They had knowledge of what blog they were adding.

They added the blog individually!

Yes there are ways and means to promote and entice your readers to vote for your blog (on any system or list), but at the end of the day they still depend on the will of the individual potential voter.

I do think that offering prizes to entice your readers to vote your site up lists similar to technorati favorites is wrong. It is creating "false positives", but I suppose the only saving grace that approach has, is that the majority percentage of voters will probably be readers already and will actually be subscribers to the blog in question. Before you say it, yes there will be exceptions. Yes I could start a new blog, under a fake name and BUY it's way to apparent "popularity" on the lists. Doesn't make it right though!

The whole marketing pilgrim thing is a bit of a waste. He'd be better off offering the Wii for folks who actually create quality links back to his site. The traffic generated by Technorati favorites is tiny in comparison to other avenues. Not to mention the additional Google Juice (although he's doing quite well with his PR7 at the moment ;) )

Alas, folks will always try it, and any list will always be skewed by results introduced in that manner.

Anyway, back to TFE, which we are talking about.

With the Technorati favorites exchange, I would wager that the majority of the bloggers involved did not vet the OPML files and simply added them. Do you really believe they checked it, for quality, whether or not they've even heard of the blogs in question, or even to root out any potential splogs?

I seriously doubt it.

It's all in the name! A favorite is an expression of popularity. Just a different kind to inbound links. Inbound links represent a mixture of quality and content of work, as well as an bility to link bait and publish with interesting stories which create traffic. You know what I mean in that respect.

A favorite, is just that, a favorite. It's a measure of an individual users affection of affinity for a certain blog. It's unrelated to quantity, quality of posts or incoming traffic. It's an endorsement based on how the user relates to the blog or blogger in qusetion.

For example, I have a number of blogs in my favorites that I would guess post as little as once every 2 weeks or sometimes once a month.

They'll never be "popular" in the way you're supposing. But they're my favorite because I like the author or the authors style of writing. I have an affinity with those blogs for my own reasons.

I really do think we could discuss this one forever. I'm sure that for whatever point we make, there are 10 people with 10 different takes on it.

One last thing, and perhaps the most important to me..

After the TFE meme started my blog jumped from 12 favorites to 64. I believe it was because I was on somebodies OPML list.

I don't know how many of those votes I have are valid. That annoys me.

TFE has robbed me of the knowledge of whether those people actually read my blog.

TFE has robbed me of knowing if any of those endorsements are real.

I might have only had 12 favorites to begin with but they were 12 REAL ones and I was damn proud of them.

I have 64 now and they mean bugger all!

Also, anybody looking to judge the quality of my blog before subscribing is now being serious misled if they use the number of Technorati favorites I have (yes I know they could use incoming links but thats a different metric, it's not an endorsement).

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Paul OFlaherty — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:32:42 -0000

I do get where you're coming from Andy. 100%! I'm just trying to look at other points. Being a bit of a picky git (or devils advocate) if you will!

I could disagree that the:

The Top 100 Favorites in Technorati is purely a gauge of who has promoted it most, not popularity.

Yes, those on the list DID do promotoion to get their readers to add them as favorites, but their readers still added them willingly. They had knowledge of what blog they were adding.

They added the blog individually!

Alas, folks will always try it, and any list will always be skewed by results introduced in that manner.

Anyway, back to TFE, which we are talking about.

I seriously doubt it.

For example, I have a number of blogs in my favorites that I would guess post as little as once every 2 weeks or sometimes once a month.

They'll never be "popular" in the way you're supposing. But they're my favorite because I like the author or the authors style of writing. I have an affinity with those blogs for my own reasons.

I really do think we could discuss this one forever. I'm sure that for whatever point we make, there are 10 people with 10 different takes on it.

One last thing, and perhaps the most important to me..

After the TFE meme started my blog jumped from 12 favorites to 64. I believe it was because I was on somebodies OPML list.

I don't know how many of those votes I have are valid. That annoys me.

TFE has robbed me of the knowledge of whether those people actually read my blog.

TFE has robbed me of knowing if any of those endorsements are real.

I might have only had 12 favorites to begin with but they were 12 REAL ones and I was damn proud of them.

I have 64 now and they mean bugger all!

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

AndyBeard — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 03:03:53 -0000

Court, when people get fed up chasing memes leaving comments just to get a link, they will go onto the next meme.
The social interaction and interlinking possible within a small group of similar topic blogs using dofollow is in many ways more powerful than the sitewide linking normally performed by blog networks.

I have seem people excited about having a list of 150 blogs that use Dofollow.
All you have to do is search in Google to find 1000s, but that doesn't necessarily help you find blogs that are in the same niche.

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

AndyBeard — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 03:03:53 -0000

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

AndyBeard — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 00:59:18 -0000

You might be missing my train of thought on this.

If a lot of that readership and popularity is built upon default blogrolls selected by the creators of RSS readers, it seems fair for a bunch of D-listers to have their own default imports into various services.

It is their choice whether to use it or not, just like I could go to an open OPML resource and pick up Robert's OPML and import it into whichever service I want (though I think his public one is out of date currently)

Top Favorites isn't the same as Most Popular.

The list was never most popular, just who could be bothered to promote it.

The are tons of celebrity bloggers for instance who don't figure on the list.

What happens if a blogger really cares about being at the top of a list?
http://www.bloggerschoiceaw...

Rosie.com now has close to 5000 votes, and that required all those people to actually register and vote, giving some quite personal details.

Most Obnoxious? Perez Hilton only has 709 votes

If Perez Hilton wanted to be in the Technorati Top 10 Favorites, I am sure it would take a few days at most.

The Top 100 Favorites in Technorati is purely a gauge of who has promoted it most, not popularity.

Instead of CPM we could use TFPM - how many Technorati Favorites per 1000 people asked to favorite you.

In some ways I have optimised my TFPM by "paying it forward" - rather than just offering to reciprocate, I have added the favorite up front.

In internet marketing one of the primary ways of selling something, either an item or an idea, is to give a benefit for the person to take such action, maybe a purchase, or just subscribing.

So far I haven't been offering any kind of incentive for subscriptions, it is fairly normal practice, but difficult to do with RSS in any real form.

Then of course there are other ways to add an incentive to building up your favorites.
http://www.marketingpilgrim...

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

AndyBeard — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 00:59:18 -0000

You might be missing my train of thought on this.

Top Favorites isn't the same as Most Popular.

The list was never most popular, just who could be bothered to promote it.

The are tons of celebrity bloggers for instance who don't figure on the list.

What happens if a blogger really cares about being at the top of a list?
http://www.bloggerschoiceaw...

Rosie.com now has close to 5000 votes, and that required all those people to actually register and vote, giving some quite personal details.

Most Obnoxious? Perez Hilton only has 709 votes

If Perez Hilton wanted to be in the Technorati Top 10 Favorites, I am sure it would take a few days at most.

The Top 100 Favorites in Technorati is purely a gauge of who has promoted it most, not popularity.

Instead of CPM we could use TFPM - how many Technorati Favorites per 1000 people asked to favorite you.

In some ways I have optimised my TFPM by "paying it forward" - rather than just offering to reciprocate, I have added the favorite up front.

In internet marketing one of the primary ways of selling something, either an item or an idea, is to give a benefit for the person to take such action, maybe a purchase, or just subscribing.

So far I haven't been offering any kind of incentive for subscriptions, it is fairly normal practice, but difficult to do with RSS in any real form.

Then of course there are other ways to add an incentive to building up your favorites.
http://www.marketingpilgrim...

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Paula Neal Mooney — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:02:48 -0000

Yep, looks like we're all blogging about this Technorati game...

PAULA NEAL MOONEY: Automatically Add Technorati Favorites...and Other Ways to Crack Technorati's Top 100 Popular Blogs

Thanks for all your tips!
Paula

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Paula Neal Mooney — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:02:48 -0000

Yep, looks like we're all blogging about this Technorati game...

PAULA NEAL MOONEY: Automatically Add Technorati Favorites...and Other Ways to Crack Technorati's Top 100 Popular Blogs

Thanks for all your tips!
Paula

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Court — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:13:14 -0000

Wow thanks for a very thorough post! Do you really think that the Do Follow movenent is over though? I'm fairly new to blogging and it seems to me like it's the biggest thing that people talk about! Maybe the percentage of blogs I read is just to small to see the overall picture.

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Court — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:13:14 -0000

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Paul OFlaherty — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:52:54 -0000

One post will NOT make them regain their link! Only votes from readers who haven't already voted can do that!

Unless, of course, you're suggesting the bloggers in quest beg for votes from their readers! ;)

I can't shake the feeling with some of your comments today that you feel that just because some top bloggers don't use the service means that they're not entitled to be on the list.

Is use a requirement of popularity? Is my vote for Scoble or Mike Arrington of any less value because THEY don't use the service?

Yes lots of top blogs do get seemingly unfair advantages. But, they deserve it! They made themselves popular. They had to get themselves to a point of critical mass where they were known enough and considered popular enough to be considered for inclusion.

Yes, I know that leads to seemingly unfair advantage because they get lots of free promotion without working for it. However, they did the grunt work in the first place to deserve inclusion.

If your blog gets popular enough you'll be included in those lists to..

And lets be honest, the blogosphere is vicious and fickle. If the tops blogs lets things slide and don't keep working, it won't be long before they are replaced and someone else will be getting the inclusion...

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Paul OFlaherty — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:52:54 -0000

One post will NOT make them regain their link! Only votes from readers who haven't already voted can do that!

Unless, of course, you're suggesting the bloggers in quest beg for votes from their readers! ;)

I can't shake the feeling with some of your comments today that you feel that just because some top bloggers don't use the service means that they're not entitled to be on the list.

Is use a requirement of popularity? Is my vote for Scoble or Mike Arrington of any less value because THEY don't use the service?

Yes, I know that leads to seemingly unfair advantage because they get lots of free promotion without working for it. However, they did the grunt work in the first place to deserve inclusion.

If your blog gets popular enough you'll be included in those lists to..

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Paul OFlaherty — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:41:43 -0000

Yep, that is true of all memes, but we're focusing on this one.

I know you give your links freely, and that's cool, I was just pointing out how people involved in the meme were picking up Google juice from various sources.

And yes, Amit was talking abut exchanging Technorati favorites, but I don't think I'm wrong in thinking he also meant links and trackbacks for the meme as he compares it to the 2000 Bloggers project.

There is no comparison between the 2000 Bloggers project and Technorati favorites so I would say it's a fair assumption that Amit was in fact referring to Google Juice generated from meme links and trackbacks.

Sadly, only Amit knows for sure exactly what her meant, so we'll just have to hope he drops along here and adds a comment or two ;)

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

Paul OFlaherty — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:41:43 -0000

Yep, that is true of all memes, but we're focusing on this one.

I know you give your links freely, and that's cool, I was just pointing out how people involved in the meme were picking up Google juice from various sources.

And yes, Amit was talking abut exchanging Technorati favorites, but I don't think I'm wrong in thinking he also meant links and trackbacks for the meme as he compares it to the 2000 Bloggers project.

Sadly, only Amit knows for sure exactly what her meant, so we'll just have to hope he drops along here and adds a comment or two ;)

Re: Blogging Productivity & Criticizing Goals

AndyBeard — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:22:30 -0000

If they are that popular, and want to retain their ranking all they have to do is make one post and they will retain any lost position on the list overnight.

But then most of them don't see any point or use to Technorati Favorites, so they probably won't bother.

It certainly doesn't bring in anywhere near as much traffic as a front page Digg, even over a year.

Lots of the top blogs, especially the Tech bloggers gain a little bit of unfair advantage by being in default RSS packages offered by various RSS readers.
There is a good reason why many of these services get a lot of promotion.